[TSC]

Zitat von Benjy

In order to be able to tell that these changes were good, you need to have a compare. Something like: Half of the world played after the new rules, the other half with the old rules. The half with the new rules had a significant raise in member-ship countet against the other half.
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To make rules and wait for some years until no one really can remember the time before the changes and than state, that the changes were good is easy. Because no one can proove that you are wrong. On the other hand, can you bring proove that the changes really were good?

That's a methodological problem but hardly something that can be researched scientifically 100% correct and also hardly something that the ITTF can do - it's just not practicable. I doubt that half of the ITTF member associations would voluntarily play the lab rat before any tests where conducted - that's why the ITTF (I think) like many other sports associations, too, tests rules in junior competitions or so.

Zitat von Benjy

Because no one can proove that you are wrong.

Are you implying that the ITTF has chosen this way to sideline the players?

Zitat von Neptune

Why are you doing that? Are you a profi playing against those low level amateurs that are now playing soooo high with their frictionless long pimples? So why are you calling frictionless long pimples players "low level amateurs"?
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Also you are talking about moral. PLEASE TELL ME WHERE YOUR MORAL IS!?

I'm a low level amateur myself and the rule changes were a huge blow for my game, too. They took all advantages that my game had. I ended up in the lowest possible division. I loose much more games. I have to practice harder to get back what I achieved previously. I have to concentrate myself much more. The rallies are longer. It took me years to get just partially back what I had originally. My style and my games are fundamentally different from what they were before (and what I developed in 20 years of training), it was often a frustrating experience but I don't complain, I never have. I move on and try to adapt to the game and it seems to work out even though it's a long, hard way.

Without going into details (I meant all rules not just the one concerning frictionless long pimples), the new rules are good because they support players that are motivated by the advancement of performance (which is as result of the new rules now even more important).
Here in this forum (and in the leagues where I play) I often have the feeling that many (but not all) players (especially amateurs) seem to spend huge amounts of time discussing rubbers, pimples, bats, glueing, etc.
They discuss heavily how they can adjust the material to their game. "The Technique, Tactic, Training"-forum instead is six times smaller.
They've complained heavily about the new rules and the ITTF and at the very same time they discussed new ways to circumvent the rules (maybe you remember the looong threads about using eucalyptus oil as a replacement for speed glue?). This looks a bit like a double moral for me and it seems that these players either rely heavily on their material and/or are more interested (see above) to change their gear and not their exercises (and sometimes don't worry much about the rules and/or the integrity of the game itself). I find this unmorally and I have therefore little respect for these players, no matter if they're playing in the highest or the lowest league, hence the term "Material-Nazis".

Zitat von Neptune

People like you are the reason for this ban.

Not this particular ban but the rules in general match up with my motivation (see above).

Zitat von Neptune

Instead of this you are applauding a user (TSC) who looks down at frictionless long pimples players and call them "low level amateurs" and also call other people here "Material-Nazis", which is more than disgraceful.

I think Mr.Sharara referred to the 2nd paragraph of my post.

Zitat von mago

... that a lot of "old" players will have no more fun "keine Lust" to play...you don't think this.........?

Zitat von Neptune

In 1-2 years we will still have the same situation, if you don't take back the ban, because there will be no adequate alternative for the players, which were using frictionless long pimples before. So a lot of them will still use their old rubbers or modify new ones.

Zitat von noppen-lord

for me it looks like you want to destroy the defensiv table tennis and I am very frustrated of this.

I've already said it and so did Mr.Sharara, but I'll repeat myself. Is the frustration of players (and/or the unwillingness to change their style) a reason not to adjust rules and to stop the development? Think about it.

Zitat von Neptune

What a mistake!!! What comes next??? Players that are crying again, because they cannot play against something else??? Officials crying, because they don't like to see: big woods, antis, long pimples, short pimples, thin rubbers, used rubbers, Chinese players (because they always win) ..... or even players that are to old and must be eliminated????

Oh, c'mon.

Zitat von Neptune

Very often those "material players" are the ones who keep people in our clubs, do a lot of official work for them

err, I somehow doubt that there's a direct correlation between this.

Zitat von Neptune

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When I see players (like in our last match) that can only make a good and "mean" service and they want to kill the next ball, I wonder who trains them. Those two players (around 25-30 years old) could not even play one correct chop. Horrible. When playing a chop, it seemed like they never played table tennis before...

... But there came a time, rubbers and woods got faster and faster and young people trained more "mean" services, so I tried short pimples on backhand, which worked very good

*cough*

Zitat von hanifah1

4 made frictionless pimples by there own

Absolutely unacceptable. Too bad that they don't care for the rules. Too bad for their opponents, too.

Zitat von hanifah1

...I think I have to stop my tabeltenniscareer after 26 years.
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But now the big Problem .... the way back ist nearly impossible.
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to buy "homemade-frictionless pimps"

Please tell, why did you switch your gear originally? And why is it nearly impossible? Why don't you try to adapt to the game? You've made the decision in the past to switch to the frictionless pimples, why is it a problem to switch again? Why would you favor cheating over training?

Zitat von hanifah1

to loose against players you won the last yéars?

So what?

Zitat von Neptune

Let's wait 1-2 years and see what's coming up.

Indeed.

Zitat von Neptune

Most people are still gluing, still use boosters, still have the possibility to use extremly fast rubbers with tensor..., still can use extremly fast woods, and furthermore the evolution of fast material won't stop, so why shouldn't we still use frictionless long pimples. It's also so bad that the times of fairness went far away from our sport. I have always been a fair sportsman using legal material, make my service correct (which a lot of players don't do), count right, don't attack other players. But when I see that most of the players in the base don't accept your new rules about gluing, boostering, friction and still use/do it as before, there must be something wrong big time!!!

Very sad but very true. I'm not going to play against these players. They'll not get the satisfaction that they're looking for. If they don't like to stick to rules they should consider playing in the basement-league.