Hello from ITTF President

[Joachim Voigt]

Zitat von Cheftrainer

Dont mix these topics!!! We are not talking about the ban of fresh glueing!!! We are talking about the use of a tuner!

For me it´s no mix. It´s 100% the same topic. Ban of whatever stuff using from players to treat rubbers. It is not neccessary for the sport and it´s a problem of health for kids also. Yes, I mean also Tuner.

Zitat von Cheftrainer

But again you mix up different topics. I am not talking about "normal" players. I talk about professional player. And YOU can not influence them !!!

I do not mix as I told you before. I understand why some what to see 2 different dopics, because would be easier. It´s even easy to say, allow it, because you can not control it. And of course all the coaches have influence on their players. And if all players now grow up without boostering they will not use it, when they are top players also.

[Cheftrainer]

Zitat von Joachim Voigt

...And if all players now grow up without boostering they will not use it, when they are top players also.

I do not care of the situation in 10 Years. We have this "doping problem" now.

And stop using this health argument. You do not know if Tuners are harmful to the health. It might be that McDonalds is more harmful as any tuner could be. And remember, it might happen that player one is tested green with a tuned racket and player two is tested red with a normal racket with new rubbers. Or are you really thinking of prohibiting new rubbers because of our poor kids???

You cant know if tuners are harmful for the health, so please do not try to influence this discussion with the "poor children that has to be saved by the ITTF" and we all have to live with the current situation of transforming the former fair sport to a sport were estimately more than 50% of the pro's are cheating.

[Joachim Voigt]

Zitat von Cheftrainer

And stop using this health argument. You do not know if Tuners are harmful to the health.

Why? Because you don´t like it? You second sentence there is *for me* the best argument to prohibit them. Because we do not know.
I, sorry, do not care about the problem now. Because it´s a problem of a small group of players. I´m right now in another country, another continent. It´s definitly no problem here, not at all. They accept the rules here. But everyone cares for his own and don´t shows to other and tries to find cheaters. It´s easy. The problem right now is very big in this forum and very big for the Pro´s. But for table tennis in the world, in my opinion, it is no problem.
The only thing in this case of my interest, is I want be sure to tell all the parents and players, that our sport is a sport without risks for healths. All the other stuff is nice to tell stories, nice for discussions for other players. If you think it´s a big problem, discuss it, go the way through the federations, use the judges if you want. Do it. But don´t tell me, that your opinion is the only one, that is true. If you want to be Tuners allowed and you get the goal, ok. I will not like this, but I will accept it. But now we have another rule. And I like it.

[Cheftrainer]

Zitat von Joachim Voigt

...Because it´s a problem of a small group of players. I´m right now in another country, another continent. It´s definitly no problem here, not at all...

I repeat, Iam not talking about the base. I agree with you that we are talking about a small number of players. Its just a question of time and the most players are not cheating. But I talked about the Top100.

Its just a question what the public connects with the sport. If someone thinks of cycling, everyone thinks of the doping problems. At the moment we have to be lucky that noone cares about tabletennis. They do not recognise that most of the top players are cheating.

By the way. Adham has committed the fact, that the real reason for him was never the health. The reason was the wish to decrease the speed of tabletennis. They always tried to argue that way in order to have enough support at the base (or at least not so much resistance). Its very easy to get some acceptance if you tell all people that you are doing it only for "the poor children".

Zitat von Joachim Voigt

...If you want to be Tuners allowed and you get the goal, ok...

I already wrote in this discussion that I dont have this goal. The rule cant be changed again. But we have to have some "real" punishments to prevent some of these players of cheating. At least that seems to be understood now (very late!!!) by the ITTF.

My only wish was, that the ITTF commits mistakes when they look at the current situation (not at the base, Iam still talking of the pro's). But as everyone could read, they do not make mistakes. Only "we" (I mean all people that are thinking that the timeplan of the ITTF was wrong) are mistaking when "we" interpret the status quo not in the same way as the ITTF...

[noppen-lord]

Dear Adham,
today was the proceeding between TT master and ITTF.
The adjudgement is not spoken until now.
Would be great if you could give a short message about.
Whats your personal opinion.
For me it looks like ITTf lost
This is of course my opinion may be I am not on the right way.

Looks like there is a lot of work for you to do especially for the controll methods

This is a big problem and when I am right, and my gut instinct is true ,I am hopefully that a lot of suppliers will push the envelope to the allowed 25mN.

best regards Noppenlord

[Zuni]

Myself new in this forum and just looking for some help, I was quite surprised to see a sports politician (no offense ment ) and even the president itself taking part in a kind of discussion.

For this isn't quite common even if you consider a small staff, first of all I would like to thank Mr. Sharara.

Here some questions / comments myself:

1) When it's been spoken about raising interest in tabletennis and raising TV ratings of TT competitions it's been said that both are interconnected. For tabletennis being much more popular in China than in Germany / Europe I would like to know if there are differences in broadcasting tabletennis on TV.

2) You said that "The ITTF makes rules only for the International level and for the events at the international level.". If the ITTFs businesss is the international level only why let you pass a rule that won't even affect the international level, quite well knowing it will be passed down to nerly each national level ? (And let them solve the problems at their national levels)

3) Considering that most national associations pass the ITTF Laws straight down to their national (amateur) level do you think that they see the ITTFs role different as it's been intended ?

4) No question but rather a comment myself: Whatever you think about the latest rules I would like to agree with Cheftrainer that making a rule without a way to proof it is the worst that could be done. Maybe testing at the international level is quite ok or professionals stick better to the honour system than amateurs, but right at the moment cheating is quite a problem at the amateur level (f.e. Bezirksklasse where I am playingsome players are using tuners that can't be proofed - even if there would be someone who would be testing or treating pimples with oil (to get them more flexible)) and I won't think this problem will be less important somewhere else.


sincerely yours,

Zuni

[adham]

Zitat von Zuni

Myself new in this forum and just looking for some help, I was quite surprised to see a sports politician (no offense ment ) and even the president itself taking part in a kind of discussion.

For this isn't quite common even if you consider a small staff, first of all I would like to thank Mr. Sharara.

Here some questions / comments myself:

1) When it's been spoken about raising interest in tabletennis and raising TV ratings of TT competitions it's been said that both are interconnected. For tabletennis being much more popular in China than in Germany / Europe I would like to know if there are differences in broadcasting tabletennis on TV.

2) You said that "The ITTF makes rules only for the International level and for the events at the international level.". If the ITTFs businesss is the international level only why let you pass a rule that won't even affect the international level, quite well knowing it will be passed down to nerly each national level ? (And let them solve the problems at their national levels)

3) Considering that most national associations pass the ITTF Laws straight down to their national (amateur) level do you think that they see the ITTFs role different as it's been intended ?

4) No question but rather a comment myself: Whatever you think about the latest rules I would like to agree with Cheftrainer that making a rule without a way to proof it is the worst that could be done. Maybe testing at the international level is quite ok or professionals stick better to the honour system than amateurs, but right at the moment cheating is quite a problem at the amateur level (f.e. Bezirksklasse where I am playingsome players are using tuners that can't be proofed - even if there would be someone who would be testing or treating pimples with oil (to get them more flexible)) and I won't think this problem will be less important somewhere else.


sincerely yours,

Zuni

1. Yes, a big difference. Table tennis in China is like Football in Europe. So the national television (CCTV) buys the rights and pays good money to broadcast the ITTF events. In Europe, the ITTF must fight with the TV networks to get time for TT. We have succeeded with Eurosport who shows now the WTTC, the World Cup and the European Champs.

2. I said that an international federation makes its rules for the events it controls, which are the international events. Then it's up to each national association to decide how to implement at the national level. Rules are proposed by the national associations themselves. All rules are made to better control the sport. Perhaps those that proposed the rule wished it implemented at the national level, or perhaps they did not want certain elements to come up to the international level.

3. No, they do not see the ITTF role's as different. They know exactly the ITTF's role. Perhaps you are confusing the different aspects of the ITTF. The ITTF is composed of the national associations, they propose the rules. The ITTF "is" the composition of all national associations. Then when it comes to jurisdiction of policing or implementing any rule, the ITTF does so at the international level and the national associations at the national level.

4. If we would follow this logic, then drugs would be legal everywhere. It is impossible to catch every kid or every person that uses illegal drugs in the streets or in their private place. Does it mean that then it should be legal? Rules are made for the betterment of society, then the governments try to police and enforce it, but it is impossible to catch every single person that cheats.

[adham]

Zitat von noppen-lord

Dear Adham,
today was the proceeding between TT master and ITTF.
The adjudgement is not spoken until now.
Would be great if you could give a short message about.
Whats your personal opinion.
For me it looks like ITTf lost
This is of course my opinion may be I am not on the right way.

Looks like there is a lot of work for you to do especially for the controll methods

This is a big problem and when I am right, and my gut instinct is true ,I am hopefully that a lot of suppliers will push the envelope to the allowed 25mN.

best regards Noppenlord

What makes you think that ITTF lost? Also the case has nothing to do with 25mN, it is another issue. But the case is still in court so I cannot comment.

[adham]

I am back after some long traveling around the world. I can post for 2-3 days, then off again.

Adham

[TSC]

Nice to see you back, Adham. I already thought that you may have had enough of us.

Anyway, I have a question:

It appears to me that the number of international tournaments grew steadily in the past years (?) with the result that the top players here in europe have contracts with their clubs that allow them to focus on the international duties (most recent case with Dimitrij Ovtcharov announcing his move to belgian top flight Villette Charleroi).
I understand that the international tournaments offer potentially more interesting games as all the top players gather together but on the other side I see that the clubs are losing those players that attract a lot of the local audience, too.
It would be great to hear your personal opinion/thoughts and the one of the ITTF about this development, the reasons and possible future plans.

Thank you.