USATT Rating/European Leagues

[topspinschuss]

I can guarantee you that 1500 level is definitely not Bezirksliga/klasse in Nordrhein Westfalen. It's more like Kreisliga unten but mostly Kreisklasse. Trust me... And 2400 is probably about Verbandsliga mitte/oben or Oberliga unten/mitte. And here is the problematic with comparing American ratings with German leagues...there are some drastic differences between the various regions in Germany when it comes to the level of players...even in the "same" types of leagues. Plus...with 6 people in a team the No.1 could is usually so much stronger than the number 5 and 6 that they could be playing in different leagues if they played for different leagues.

Anyway...2100 would be probably about Bezirksliga in Nordrhein Westfalen, maybe, maybe Landesliga unten (i.e. No. 5-6). You can generally (very generally) say that Landesliga unten is the equivalent of Bezirksliga mitte (3-4) and Landesliga oben is about Verbandsliga mitte and Verbandsliga mitte could very well play Oberliga unten...so there is a huge difference in level of play within the same team even. And also...there is a HUGE difference between the teams in the same leagues...the ones that are hanging in there are MUCH weaker than the top teams in the league. Hope this helps to put things into perspective. What counts in Germany are results...you play in a certain league and after half a year you'll know exactly if you belong into that league or not.

Zitat von Mac Teefürzweifix

I can only report my personal experience. My own USATT rating was in the 1500 to 1520 range, whereas in Germany I generally fit into the "Bezirksklasse" or "Bezirksliga" (depending on how it's named in the various states).
A guy I used to know in the USA was rated around 2400, and he was one of the top players in the "Oberliga" over here.

So that's two data points, not statistically valid, but enough to extrapolate from and get yourself into trouble :-)

[Pushblocker]

Zitat von topspinschuss

I can guarantee you that 1500 level is definitely not Bezirksliga/klasse in Nordrhein Westfalen. It's more like Kreisliga unten but mostly Kreisklasse. Trust me... And 2400 is probably about Verbandsliga mitte/oben or Oberliga unten/mitte. And here is the problematic with comparing American ratings with German leagues...there are some drastic differences between the various regions in Germany when it comes to the level of players...even in the "same" types of leagues. Plus...with 6 people in a team the No.1 could is usually so much stronger than the number 5 and 6 that they could be playing in different leagues if they played for different leagues.

Anyway...2100 would be probably about Bezirksliga in Nordrhein Westfalen, maybe, maybe Landesliga unten (i.e. No. 5-6). You can generally (very generally) say that Landesliga unten is the equivalent of Bezirksliga mitte (3-4) and Landesliga oben is about Verbandsliga mitte and Verbandsliga mitte could very well play Oberliga unten...so there is a huge difference in level of play within the same team even. And also...there is a HUGE difference between the teams in the same leagues...the ones that are hanging in there are MUCH weaker than the top teams in the league. Hope this helps to put things into perspective. What counts in Germany are results...you play in a certain league and after half a year you'll know exactly if you belong into that league or not.

So, it seems that there is a big difference in playing level between the same league in different german states. So, in order to really know in what leage someone would belong based on a USATT rating, you'd actually need to knew somebody from germany in that league who also has a USATT rating. So far, I know 2 players who play 2100 level and both played Verbandsliga in different states. One local Florida player who is about 2100 rated (2103 right now) played Verbandsliga in Baden Württemberg.. His rating here varied between high 1900's and high 2100's.. His name is Werner Stollenmeier.. He has been playing in the US since over 5 years.. He is a chopper.. I really don't know if he played oben, mitte or unten..

[JanMove]

Zitat von Pushblocker

So, it seems that there is a big difference in playing level between the same league in different german states. So, in order to really know in what leage someone would belong based on a USATT rating, you'd actually need to knew somebody from germany in that league who also has a USATT rating. So far, I know 2 players who play 2100 level and both played Verbandsliga in different states. One local Florida player who is about 2100 rated (2103 right now) played Verbandsliga in Baden Württemberg.. His rating here varied between high 1900's and high 2100's.. His name is Werner Stollenmeier.. He has been playing in the US since over 5 years.. He is a chopper.. I really don't know if he played oben, mitte or unten..

I assume that this player probably played on position 6 in the Verbandsliga of Baden-Württemberg. His US-rating seems to be very low and the Verbandsliga of Baden-Württemberg is one of the strongest Verbandsligas in Germany.

[topspinschuss]

Either that, or he played in the Verbandsliga something like 10-15 years ago and is not as good as he used to be anymore (probably an older gentleman in at least in his 40s). Most players that you ask about what league they played will tell you just the highest league they ever played...not which league they played last.

Zitat von JanMove

I assume that this player probably played on position 6 in the Verbandsliga of Baden-Württemberg. His US-rating seems to be very low and the Verbandsliga of Baden-Württemberg is one of the strongest Verbandsligas in Germany.

[Pushblocker]

Zitat von topspinschuss

Either that, or he played in the Verbandsliga something like 10-15 years ago and is not as good as he used to be anymore (probably an older gentleman in at least in his 40s). Most players that you ask about what league they played will tell you just the highest league they ever played...not which league they played last.

He is in his 50's.. He came to the US some time around 2003 and played Verbandsliga before that.. Even though he got older, his rating stayed about the same from 2003 to 2009. So, he still plays the level he played when he moved here. Again, I don't know what position he played on the team.. Maybe someone on here knows him?? I can ask him if I'll see him at the next tournament..

[bbu]

There was a similar thread on the topic last year in mytabletennis:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum....asp?TID=19282

Cheers,

Bernd

[Pushblocker]

Zitat von bbu

There was a similar thread on the topic last year in mytabletennis:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum....asp?TID=19282

Cheers,

Bernd

Thanks!! Interesting thread!!

[a123]

To be honest, the level in Europe is much higher than the level in the USA.

I know both levels, because I lived in America and as well in Europe.

[Kyuss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MypLsDoJIvA

[Tony_Iommi]

Not to beat a dead horse but the bottom line is: it is extremely difficult to compare the US Rating to the system in Germany. Here in the States, you may gain or lose a ton of points playing a couple of matches. In Germany that would have virtually no or very little effect.