Hello from ITTF President

[JanMove]

Zitat von Footsteps

The minimum friction rule is not applied to RUBBERS. Its applied to PIMPLES only. Why?

(Antispin / Antitop is unaffected by the new rules)

I hope adham can answer these questions briefly (in a nutshell).

I don't think that you will get a satisfying answer because at the beginning of the discussion Mr. Sharara was even not aware that this rule applies only to long pimpled-out rubbers.
And now I tell you a story. Last August I took part at a training course where Rudi Sporror (the chairman of the rules committee for the ITTF) teached us about the new rules (long pimples, glueing, and so on). And this is no joke, he said that the rule about the minimum friction level applies to all kind of rubbers, i. e., also to Anti, short pimples, ....

So, this is the knowledge of the people with whom you are discussing!

Best regards and merry Xmas!

[adham]

Zitat von Mighty

@Adham

Just imagine, the same idea slightly changed a few years ago. Instead of "pimpled rubbers" - 38mm ball or hidden service, or speed glue, or frictionless pimples, or 21 points.

Of course, this time things are completely different.

Need I really to explain to you, that any time any Association can make a proposition? And then the Associations will vote?

Yes, of course, any association can make a proposition and all other associations need to vote on it at our AGm, and in the case of TT Laws, we need more than 75% in favour to pass such a proposition. It is extremely unlikely that the ITTF would ever pass a proposition to ban All pimples. If such a proposition would ever pass, I would resign immediately, but I can assure you that we would never have such a proposition, and if we did, it would never pass.

[adham]

Zitat von Nullinger

...
Once again, I highly appreciate that you take your valuable time to listen to us here. This, honestly, makes me love Table Tennis even more! (Could you imagine Joseph Blatter participate in a Spanish soccer forum? )

Zitat von Nullinger

...
Did the ITTF think about trying to influence, HOW TT is shown on TV?
Trying to influence that more cameras for different angles are used and maybe special equipment for better (higher resolution) slowmotions?
I guess, it is difficult to enforce something that costs TV stations money to show a sport they are not particularly interested in in the first place.

1. Influence on TV stations: yes, we try all the time. In some countries it is very eassy to influence because we deal with a TV mnetwork that is very cooperative. In other countries it is more difficult because of budget reasons as you mentioned. We always provide guidelines, but they don't always folow them. At the moment we are "soft" with TV because we are haopy that they just cover us. In the future we could be more tough and "imp[ose" our guidelines. You also have to recognize that many TV networks have no experience with table tennis coverage and therefore they make mistakes.

Zitat von Nullinger

...
What I think should be propagated more is to show the tournaments on TV. Push the Pro Tour, count the tournaments and points the players gather to qualify for the Grand Finals (as for the "Masters" in Tennis). I think that promises more success than to show league matches.
What do you think?

2. Team vs Singles: The league events you see on TV are not an ITTF product. The only Team matches that ITTF sells to TV are the World Team Championships and World Team Cup, both televised by Eurosport. You are absolutely right about the pro Tour, and I hope that in the New Year I will be able to make a very special announcemnet about the pro Tour (keep your fingers crossed) and that what you described will become a reality.

Zitat von Nullinger

...
Once again, I highly appreciate that you take your valuable time to listen to us here. This, honestly, makes me love Table Tennis even more! (Could you imagine Joseph Blatter participate in a Spanish soccer forum? )

By the way, Sep Blatter is a very nice guy and communicates mainly through the press. FIFA has several hundred staff, so they van answer e-mails and they have an entire communications department. In ITTF I have about 20 staff (used to be only 5 10 years ago), so I have to do a lot myself, including going to Forums and answer questions.

[adham]

@Fastest115

With all due respect I do not agree with you. Let me explain why:
40mm Ball: the idea of a bigger ball exists now for at least 28 years. In JApan a 44 mm balls was already in play before 1988 (20 yerars ago). The ITTF President from 1987 to 1994 pushed for a bigger ball during his mandate, then Mr. Xu of China did the same when he was elected in 1995, and eventually the 40 mm ball was approved in the year 2000 (92% in favour), after it was defeated in 1999 (74.5% in favour). So it took more than 20 years to make this change, which by the way was always favoured by the majority but not by more than 75% of the voting associations.

11 Points: I remember in 1989 having the North American Championships played with 9-poinbts games. For almost 30 years there has been a push to reduce the length of the Games from 21 to 15, or 13, or 11, or 9 or even 7. This was not new. It was proposed to the ITTF by the Athletes Commission (not by an association) and received more than 90% in favour in 2001 (or 2002). It was preceded by 2 years of experiments.

Open Service: This is a perennial rule of the ITTF that appears at every single AGM. The current rule was finally passed after several years of debate and arguments about the wording. The problem was never the intent iof the rule (clear view of the service to the receiver), the argument was always on the wording and the control of the rule.

Glue Ban: As you may know VOC Glue was already banned in 1993, but then the ITTF rversed its decision 6 months later mainly because of the lack of testing equipment. Some say because some associations and players put pressure, but I do not believe so. 15 years later the rule finally passed.

So, as you can see, in order to make a significant change it takes many many years. At the moment within the ITTF there is no such move. I would know if there were.

There are not too many changes in ITTF rules. Bascially 4 important changes in the last 20 years, most of them in the period 2000-2004. The low friction level in 2006. This is not a lot if we want to be progressive and move forward as a sport. I always say: "If we had miilions of spectators, we refused sponsors, we were on every TV screen, our athletes were recognized in the streets, and we were the top sport in the wordl, then we would NOT need to change anything at all".

[adham]

Zitat von Footsteps

(since the ITTF only cares about the top international game with regard to rules governing and at that level of play frictionless pimples used to be non existant and were considered a joke)

I never said that ITTF only "cares" abiout the Top level. What I said is that the ITTF can only control the top level, then it is up to the national associations to control the national level, they also have the option to follow or not the ITTF rules. The ITTF "cares" a lot about all levels.

Zitat von Footsteps

1. Why are frictionless Pimples banned but frictionless Rubbers still allowed?


2. And as a followup, why were frictionless pimples banned in the firstplace?

To answer your questions:
- As you know, post treatment of rubber is illegal (to treat a rubber after it leaves the factory). The ITTF noticed a lot of post-treatments by players and also by distributors. The Board of Directors asked the Equipment Committee to find a solution. After some testing and some analysis the Equipment Committee established the minimum friction level of 25mN to detect and make illegal such rubbers.
- Normally this minimum friction rule should apply to all rubbers, but it was found that only long pimpled rubber was the main type that would be traeted (or coated) post factory production, therefore, the Equipment Committee applied iot only to LP. This modification will be made to the Technical leaflet No.4.

Zitat von Footsteps

/almost offtopic (not so serious part):

Oh and since it is Chrismas:
Can we please ban any frictionless playing material to achive consistancy within the Rules? Else i will use glass as a racket covering, wich, this may come as a surprise to you, is entirely possible. I can also further enhance that glass surface with a nano technology cover so it will deterr water and clean itself which is also state of the art technology. Can i use that? No Pimples involved at all, i promise. ther's also room for an ITTF approval stamp.

Seriously if Table Tennis was big enough for Nike or Addidas or Speedo, you would start to see matrerial that blows your mind away so i would be quick on getting the rules ironed out because if by some magic tabletennis becomes really big, we are in trouble. Best material scientist wins.

A glass racket is not allowed by our current rules, so your idea would not work, but I fully get your point and your sarcasm. But in reality table tennis is not really an "equipment oriented" sport (or material as you say in Germany). TT is a "skill oriented" sport. Some of the companies you mention are heavily involved in the "equipment oriented" sports. For example in Luge the equipment is probably more important than the technique, same would apply to Archery, or Shooting or even some athletic events. In Table tennis technique and skill are the main ingredients that make a good player, as well as physical and mental qualities. Equipment is an "enhancement" of a player's style. Those that rely "mainly" on equipment are those that have been negatively affected the most by the low-friction ban. Those that had solid technique and skills could move on to alternate equipment and raise their level again over some time.

Please do not stop playing TT, it's a great sport regardless of the equipment used and you can find a new challenge and as much enjoyment as before. Stay with us, we need all of you.

[adham]

Zitat von Footsteps

The minimum friction rule is not applied to RUBBERS. Its applied to PIMPLES only. Why?

(Antispin / Antitop is unaffected by the new rules)

I hope adham can answer these questions briefly (in a nutshell).
...

I explained a few posts above. But as Footsteps said its Christmas time and some sarcasm is allowed with the Christmas pudding, then the real reason that will be discovered soon as a scandal is that the ITTF President uses Anti. Shhhhshhhh!

[adham]

Zitat von JanMove

... at the beginning of the discussion Mr. Sharara was even not aware that this rule applies only to long pimpled-out rubbers.
And now I tell you a story. Last August I took part at a training course where Rudi Sporror (the chairman of the rules committee for the ITTF) teached us about the new rules (long pimples, glueing, and so on). And this is no joke, he said that the rule about the minimum friction level applies to all kind of rubbers, i. e., also to Anti, short pimples, ....

This is correct. The rule was intended for all rubbers, and when the Technical Leaflet was issued it was also intended for all rubbers. However, the Equipment Committee advised us that treated rubber was mostly the LP and pimples, and that they would test only the LP and therefore did not need test other rubbers. This will be adjusted accordingly.

Personally I was originally under the impression that the Anti met the 25mN friction level and therefore it was not an issue, but frankly I do not know if it does meet it or not.

You are right, we were not all on the same wavelength on this issue. I apologize for that. We will try to get our act together better.

[Fastest115]

Zitat von adham

There are not too many changes in ITTF rules. Bascially 4 important changes in the last 20 years, most of them in the period 2000-2004. The low friction level in 2006. This is not a lot if we want to be progressive and move forward as a sport. I always say: "If we had miilions of spectators, we refused sponsors, we were on every TV screen, our athletes were recognized in the streets, and we were the top sport in the wordl, then we would NOT need to change anything at all".

There are more Changes than 4.

11 Points, 40 mm Ball, lower Aspect Ratio on long pimples, no hidden services, Speed glue banned, Tuning banned, frictionless pimples banned...

Every Championship with different Team Rules.

3 against 3 with 9 single matches in 1989, 4 single one Double, 4 single one Double but one player only 2 single the other one single together double. No 4th or 5th player at Olympia to change.....

And then the big Problem, that a lot of rules cannot be controlled in lower classes because there are no official referees. No ENEZ, Tuner which cannot be reckognized , no chance in lower classes to get a right service because the referee is the friend of one player and and and...

The rules cannot be controlled at all for example some Booster. There is no official test in the Sportshall how somebody can say if the Pimple has to less friction.

Or they are not to be controlled in lower classes because there are no referees.

And for example somebody will really tested bei an ENEZ and get positiv or the referee says the friction is too less. What happens. He had to change the racket. Nothing else. Too less Control, Too less punishment_>Invitation to use VOC or frictionless prepared pimples.

I play 11 Teammatches and a few Tournaments in lower classes here last month. And I see no ENEZ and I see nobody who controle my pimples. And I have never heard in the 8 lowest classes (of 13) with I Think over 1000 Teams and over 10000 team matches that in one match there has been a control with Enez and Long pimples.

And I ask here in the TT News forum if somebody has been controled in lower classes. No answer.

No sorry. Rules which are only controled at professional tournaments show that nobody think of the base and only TT in TV is the thing which is important.

And other change which are made for TV for example the new System in the German first league brings less visitors to the matches in the Sports halls

And I cannot see that the Changes in the last years bring more people to the matches or more time in the television. the 80th we have less TV Stations in Germany but more matches will be shown in TV. A lot of European Cups or national Championships....

So a lot of changes and nothing happens!!!!

TT is not soccer and never will be. Change what you want but it will never be like that. But every change forced more players like me to say no and they do not play any longer.

Thats my opinion based on what I see und hear every day here in TT news and in the clubs where I spend every evening of the week.

[TSC]

Zitat von Footsteps

I would also suggest for a moderator to create some sort of a FAQ on the most significant statements adham makes here as president of the ITTF so he doesn't have to tell the same story over and over again

Let me think about it. I'll look into it after the Christmas holidays.

[spin-master]

i really like our president!
and after his statement about the pimple rubbers i like him more.
i am not a pimple player but pimples must remain on the market.
they are an important part of this sport.
not just long pimples also short pimples are rubbers that most of us would not like to miss.
if there are rule changes in the future (i do not hope that becaue table tennis is attractive like it is in the moment) pimples must remain an alternative to the inverted rubbers.
i am very happy that our president also see it like this.
continue this way!