Hello from ITTF President

[Mighty]

Zitat von adham

Yes, of course, any association can make a proposition and all other associations need to vote on it at our AGm, and in the case of TT Laws, we need more than 75% in favour to pass such a proposition. It is extremely unlikely that the ITTF would ever pass a proposition to ban All pimples. If such a proposition would ever pass, I would resign immediately, but I can assure you that we would never have such a proposition, and if we did, it would never pass.

@Adham

Let me tell you, why I think, that ban of all pimples and antis is possible.

From my experience, 80-90% of all players in Germany play with inverted rubbers on both sides. The best players don't have serious problems when playing against pimples and antis. But these best players are only a small minority.

The majority of players with inverted rubbers do have serious problems. The most of them have only 1 practice session and 1 competition a week. They simply 1)don't have enough time to learn how to play against all the types of rubber and particularly against all possible combinations, and 2) don't have all these pimples and antis players in their clubs. I think, if asked, they would support a ban of all pimples and antis.

That's why I think, that the proposition may and even schould come from the German Federation (DTTB). Of course, if they are willing to listen to the majority of players.

I also think, that the situation in Germany is not quite different from situations in other countries. If so, the proposition would be adopted by the necessary majority at AGM.

I hope also, that you would accept such a democratic decision and not resign.

[adham]

Zitat von Fastest115

There are more Changes than 4.

11 Points, 40 mm Ball, lower Aspect Ratio on long pimples, no hidden services, Speed glue banned, Tuning banned, frictionless pimples banned...

Every Championship with different Team Rules.

3 against 3 with 9 single matches in 1989, 4 single one Double, 4 single one Double but one player only 2 single the other one single together double. No 4th or 5th player at Olympia to change.....

And then the big Problem, that a lot of rules cannot be controlled in lower classes because there are no official referees. No ENEZ, Tuner which cannot be reckognized , no chance in lower classes to get a right service because the referee is the friend of one player and and and...

The rules cannot be controlled at all for example some Booster. There is no official test in the Sportshall how somebody can say if the Pimple has to less friction.

Or they are not to be controlled in lower classes because there are no referees.

And for example somebody will really tested bei an ENEZ and get positiv or the referee says the friction is too less. What happens. He had to change the racket. Nothing else. Too less Control, Too less punishment_>Invitation to use VOC or frictionless prepared pimples.

I play 11 Teammatches and a few Tournaments in lower classes here last month. And I see no ENEZ and I see nobody who controle my pimples. And I have never heard in the 8 lowest classes (of 13) with I Think over 1000 Teams and over 10000 team matches that in one match there has been a control with Enez and Long pimples.

And I ask here in the TT News forum if somebody has been controled in lower classes. No answer.

No sorry. Rules which are only controled at professional tournaments show that nobody think of the base and only TT in TV is the thing which is important.

And other change which are made for TV for example the new System in the German first league brings less visitors to the matches in the Sports halls

And I cannot see that the Changes in the last years bring more people to the matches or more time in the television. the 80th we have less TV Stations in Germany but more matches will be shown in TV. A lot of European Cups or national Championships....

So a lot of changes and nothing happens!!!!

TT is not soccer and never will be. Change what you want but it will never be like that. But every change forced more players like me to say no and they do not play any longer.

Thats my opinion based on what I see und hear every day here in TT news and in the clubs where I spend every evening of the week.

OK, I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you. The first time Table Tennis was on Eurosport was in 2001-2002, and this was done by the ITTF. The first non-TT major sponsor for TT was Volkswagen and Liebherr, and now China Unicom, etc. This was also done by ITTF. In 1980s we had 160 member countries, now we have 205 National Associations member of the ITTF.

A lot of the rule changes you mention are not rule changes but rule applications (boosters, tuners, etc.). And your criticism of the method of play in Teams is also not a rule change. These are different methods of playing teams. It is a variety that is great for our sport. It does not change how the player plays, a match is still a match under any system of play.

And , yes, I believe that one day TT will be as popular as Soccer. Why not? I think about that everyday. If I did not believe that, then it's better for e to stay home and sleep. It will take a long time, but we will do it. Stick around and see. believe it or not but at the Athens and Beijing Olympic Games, TT was more popular than Soccer, and this is by IOC's own statistics. So we already beat Soccer twice at the Olympics. The next step is much harder, but we will do it one day, and we must keep trying.

In any case, you are still playing and that is what matters. Now set yourself a new goal, a new challenge, and go for it. You obviously care about the sport and unfortunately your generation has suffered most of the current changes, so I apologize to you for that. But the ITTF would not be a responsible organization if we did not have a vision for the future. Changes will always affect the current generation the worst. The next generation will not be affected, just as you were not affected when Sandpaper rackets were no longer legal, or when finger-spin was banned, or when the net was lowered, or when the expedite rule was introduced, etc. I don't know how old you are, but if you were also affected by these older changes, then I double apologize to you on behalf of my predecessors.

[adham]

Zitat von spin-master

and after his statement about the pimple rubbers i like him more.
i am not a pimple player but pimples must remain on the market.
they are an important part of this sport.
not just long pimples also short pimples are rubbers that most of us would not like to miss.
if there are rule changes in the future (i do not hope that becaue table tennis is attractive like it is in the moment) pimples must remain an alternative to the inverted rubbers.

Absolutely !

[adham]

Zitat von Mighty

@Adham

That's why I think, that the proposition may and even schould come from the German Federation (DTTB). Of course, if they are willing to listen to the majority of players.

I also think, that the situation in Germany is not quite different from situations in other countries. If so, the proposition would be adopted by the necessary majority at AGM.

I hope also, that you would accept such a democratic decision and not resign.

First, I really doubt that the DTTB would make such a proposition. I could understand the low-friction proposition for many reasons. But for heaven's sake, we have top players in the world using pimples. Even if the DTTB made such a proposition, which I never think they would, I personally believe that it would never pass at an AGM. It would need more than 75% of the national associations voting. Perhaps the DTTB could have such a rule nationally only, but again, I doubt it very much. Usually the DTTB are very good about the propositions they make. Usually they also discuss with me and other EC members, as well as with other associations about their ideas. I have never heard anything about banning ALL pimples.

Now regarding your point about resignation. Of course if such a proposition is passed I would accept the majority vote. But also I would realize that I am Presiding on a federation that has lost its reason, so yes, I would resign. Since my presence at the ITTF, there have been many decisions made that I agreed with and some that I did not agree with. But all decisions were made democratically and even those decision that I personally did not like, I was willing to defend and implement. But on fundamental issues such as health, fairness, equal opportunities, race, the fabric of our game, etc., I would have trouble with my conscience to remain involved. However, I do not see a ban on ALL pimples in my time as president.

[Mighty]

Zitat von adham

... I could understand the low-friction proposition for many reasons. But for heaven's sake, we have top players in the world using pimples. ...

OK, "we have top players in the world using pimples". But let us take a closer look at the other side.

There are more, than 600 000 TT club members in Germany alone. More, than 400 000 play in teams.

More, than 350 000, I guess, have serious problems playing against "not inverted" for reasons I have already mentioned in my previous post.

Do they count? I hope, yes. And in the whole TT World there are probably millions.

I hope, players using pimples can understand that.

[Nullinger]

Zitat von Mighty

More, than 350 000, I guess, have serious problems playing against "not inverted" for reasons I have already mentioned in my previous post.

What makes you guess that high number?
Counterexample in my club: we have about 50 players and I would say the vast majority has no trouble playing against players with long or short pimples.

Personally, I can't play well against players with a lot of speed and topspin. I think, high-friction rubbers and fast blades should be banned.

I did not understand the background of the minimum friction rule at first but for the reason of being able to check for cheaters with treated equipment it makes sense. Banning all pimples is either a sarcastic joke or nonsense.

@adham: I do not see that many people quit playing due to the minimum friction rule. I heard about one player who actually quit, but he continued playing again after about half a year. I know many players who played low-friction long pimples and found acceptable new equipment. But Germany is a country of moaners and complainers...

About the TV issue: sorry, I did not know that the ITTF pushed individual tournaments only, I thought, showing the Chinese Super League and the German DTTL on TV was also pushed by ITTF. My mistake. I am now excited to see what will come up next year concerning the Pro Tour. Will we see some kind of "Grand Slam"?
Actually, what I forgot to mention:
this "decision" between league and singles tournaments is something we have in Table Tennis but not in Tennis. Most professional Tennis players focus on ATP Tour tournaments only. The "weaker" players play in leagues (and additionally maybe some tournaments). I am completely undecided, but maybe it would be a good approach, if the professional players - at least the top 100 in the world ranking - would play tournaments only. Then they would play more tournaments and tournaments would be more attractive due to a higher level of play. But this in turn only works if the players could live off the prize money and sponsoring without the money from their clubs. It's an idea without a solution how to implement it.

By the way: I like how it is possible to follow the Pro Tour tournaments on the ITTF website with all the results and nice articles.

[Fastest115]

Zitat von Nullinger

I did not understand the background of the minimum friction rule at first but for the reason of being able to check for cheaters with treated equipment it makes sense.

Why it makes sense???

Before banning all frictionless pimples play 90% of the FLLP Players with legal rubbers like Superblock and Co. 10% are cheaters und treat there rubbers (maybe its only 5% or less).

And now. The 90% had to pay a lot of money for testing a lot of alternative material. They spend a lot of Time for it and often be frustrated because of the results. Some of them will decide to cheat now.

And the former cheaters stay in cheating still. Becuase in lower classes without refereee there is no chance to controle the rubbers on friction.

So what reaches this rule if the target was to get less cheaters? Nothing!!!! because now more people cheat and such persons who play legal rubbers before has to pay for it with money time and frustration.

[Footsteps]

Adham you did not even answer the question.

Why minimum friction? What is the official reasoning? I don't ask for your oppinion. To my understanding someone suggested a minimum friction for racket coverings and it was agreed upon. Why? Because it's more sexy?



Also Adham, im sorry and this is not an offence but i slowly grow doubts about your competence.

Antispin or an other name Antitop rubbers have been designed to have as little friction as possible. Long Pimples Out can never, will never and were never as even, polished and therefore frictionless as Antis. the reason is the behaviour of the ball on impact, causing the pimples to move and present several sharp edges and other uneven contact that causes friction.

To even debate that is really, really shocking to me. It shows a profound lack of understanding what the problem is.

Antis are the best replacement for frictionless long pimples right now. They lack the irritating flight effect but provide greater precision, especially when attacking or blocking. A lot of people i know who who play even at quite some Level (Mens/Herren A in germany) adapted to the new rules by switching to antis. Combined with a decend attacking ruber on the other side, an acceptable replacement for their old stuff they tell me.

So you tell me you (the ITTF) did not even consider that. Adham, i'm sorry. what are "you" (the ITTF) gonna do now? Change the rules AGAIN? Don't forget frictionless short pips then this time. Oh and duck. People will tear you appart, methaphorically speaking.

From my perspective its not a matter on what is done. It's how it is done.
And the execution on your part (the ITTF) could not be poorer. An oppinion that i do not have exclusively this time but one that i share with my good old imaginary friend and personal idol Timo Boll, who's voice should carry some weight and even rock your chair if necessary.

Think first, then act.
If you want to enforce a minimum friction Level, why dont you go ahead and check ALL the racket coverings on the market for that criteria? What kind of company are you running over there? How can such a slipup even happen? It's simply embarrassing.


Ps. Its NOT called equipment. Its the MATERIAL that is used to compose the equipment! Acrylate is already used in Blades. It can be incorporated into so called rubbers to. Nanogate technology would allow to produce Rubbers that are as plain as a mirror or ice or whatever you think has a perfectly even surface. So a minimum friction rule is a splendit idea. It has nothing to do with pimples though...

[adham]

Zitat von Mighty

OK, "we have top players in the world using pimples". But let us take a closer look at the other side.

There are more, than 600 000 TT club members in Germany alone. More, than 400 000 play in teams.

More, than 350 000, I guess, have serious problems playing against "not inverted" for reasons I have already mentioned in my previous post.

Do they count? I hope, yes. And in the whole TT World there are probably millions.

I hope, players using pimples can understand that.

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that ALL pimples should be banned or should not be banned?

[adham]

Zitat von Nullinger

What makes you guess that high number?
Counterexample in my club: we have about 50 players and I would say the vast majority has no trouble playing against players with long or short pimples.

Personally, I can't play well against players with a lot of speed and topspin. I think, high-friction rubbers and fast blades should be banned.

I did not understand the background of the minimum friction rule at first but for the reason of being able to check for cheaters with treated equipment it makes sense. Banning all pimples is either a sarcastic joke or nonsense.

@adham: I do not see that many people quit playing due to the minimum friction rule. I heard about one player who actually quit, but he continued playing again after about half a year. I know many players who played low-friction long pimples and found acceptable new equipment. But Germany is a country of moaners and complainers...

Thank you, I understand all of your points and agree with them all. Of course it is not possible to ban ALL pimples. The low friction level applied to long pimples unfortunately eliminated a part of our game, but so did the 4mm thickness level when it was introduced many tears ago.

Zitat von Nullinger

I am completely undecided, but maybe it would be a good approach, if the professional players - at least the top 100 in the world ranking - would play tournaments only. Then they would play more tournaments and tournaments would be more attractive due to a higher level of play. But this in turn only works if the players could live off the prize money and sponsoring without the money from their clubs. It's an idea without a solution how to implement it.

The reason the top players do not play only in Pro Tour events is because they cannot earn enough prize money. We are working very hard to change that.