Hello from ITTF President

[Tony_Iommi]

Zitat von hanifah1

I think I have to stop my tabeltenniscareer after 26 years.

Let me ask you a quick question - if you started 26 years ago, I suppose there weren't any frictionless pimples (or at least not of the same caliber) around, yet. Or am I wrong? So what did you do back than?

And further to that, it would mean that your game completely relies on your pips?!

Again, I personally couldn't care less about (banning) frictionless pips. The players I have lost to using that kind of stuff, were simply better than me - with or without that kind of rubber.

However, in the scheme of things, I do understand and support the ban. We can't live in denial, the fact of the matter is, that there were whole batches of players who all of sudden by using frictionless pips, emerged from out of the blue and in no time and from rather low levels (without putting in the effort that would have justified that kind of a sudden boost of their level).

[adham]

@Neptune

Dear Neptune,
Please don't apologize about your English. You express yourself fine and your anger and frustration comes across very clearly. Although I answered your question "Why frictionless long pimples are not allowed?" many times in different forums, I will explain again, and also using your own argument I will try to explain the "vision" of the ITTF.

1. There is no such thing as "frictionless" rubber. There is however a minimum friction level established by the ITTF (25 Nt)
2. On one side the ITTF has banned VOC glues, has made boosters and tuners and any additives illegal, thus reducing a lot the force of the attacking player.
3. In an effort to "regulate" the racket equipment into a manageable range relating to speed, friction (spin), thickness, colour, glossy, etc., the ITTF for a long time debated how the characteristics of the racket could be better controlled to avoid a total mess.
4. The members of the ITTF, which are the national associations, who have the responsibility of setting the rules at the international level for the ITTF and voting on any rule, decided to set a minimum limit of friction as a standard, just like we have a maximum limit of thickness of the rubber. This is again to have a rule, a range and a balance bettwen the limits established on the racket. More than 90% voted in favour of this rule and also more than 90% voted in favour of rule 2.4.7 (not allowing to change the rubber after it is approved).

You yourself said that it is no longer an advantage to have low-friction pimples because everyone can play against it. So if it is no longer an advantage then it is better to find another alternative against the attacking player. In addition, the force of the attacking player has been reduced with the ban on VOC glues and the illegality of additives such as boosters.

Yesterday, in the Sports News on CNN they showed a top Korean golfer disqualified from a tournament. Why? Because his golf club het a metal object on the ground (water sprinkler) and the golf club was slightly bent. The Korean golfer did not notice and he played the next shot. He was disqualified because his golf club was "altered". Very strict rule! Of course at a local event or club event he would continue to play. So, you must accept that at local events some players will cheat, but you must also accept that the role of the ITTF is to set standards that the ITTF members believe are a good thing for the game in the long run.

But as usual, you are right about one thing, if this rule proves to be negative in a year or two, of course the ITTF will reconsider it. But we don't make decisions based on the opinions and experiences in Germany alone, we as an international federation, take into account the opinions of ALL our members form all continents.

Adham

[hanifah1]

Zitat von Tony_Iommi

Let me ask you a quick question - if you started 26 years ago, I suppose there weren't any frictionless pimples (or at least not of the same caliber) around, yet. Or am I wrong? So what did you do back than?

Frictionless pimples are a special kind of rubbers, that need a special way to play. It is not like speed glueing or not.
You need a complete different style to play and tactic. It is more easy to change form friction to frictionless. After a few years you are playing better.

But now the big Problem .... the way back ist nearly impossible.
I played frictionless for 10? years. In my age , I can't change back.

Where is the fun , to loose against players you won the last yéars ?

I don't need to spend my freetime with frustrating experiences !!!

The only way for me and many others is now to be frustrated in there hobbies, to buy "homemade-frictionless pimps" or to change the sport.

You can say " your problem! " and you are right, it is now my problem.

I think in future I will play Badminton. So all is new, I will start as a rookie and from month to month I will improve.
That will be a nice experience, with fun.......

[Neptune]

Dear Mr. Sharara,

unfortunately you don't comment (and read?) the sentences as I write it and you elude. You are not using my arguments (as you stated) you misrepresent them.
But anyway, thanks a lot for your statements.
Let's wait 1-2 years and see what's coming up.
In the meantime I will try some more new rubbers and spend some more money (my family already likes that a lot).
If my other tests with long pimples, maybe new antis etc.... will fail within the next 3 months (and it looks like it, but I still hope, that someone brings adequate legal material) I will think about buying some "home-made" long pimples from a store, like a lot of other players already did, and play them for the next 1-2 years. Most people are still gluing, still use boosters, still have the possibility to use extremly fast rubbers with tensor..., still can use extremly fast woods, and furthermore the evolution of fast material won't stop, so why shouldn't we still use frictionless long pimples. It's also so bad that the times of fairness went far away from our sport. I have always been a fair sportsman using legal material, make my service correct (which a lot of players don't do), count right, don't attack other players. But when I see that most of the players in the base don't accept your new rules about gluing, boostering, friction and still use/do it as before, there must be something wrong big time!!!

Best regards

neptune

[noppen-lord]

Dear Mr president welcome here to this forum
I dont want to write a lot to this but I must say the guys which are writing here they are all right and of course they fight for there rights.

In my team I lose 2 players which played frictionless long pimples.
With the new material they can not play so they leave and now they play golf ....
Resultwe can not start anymore in the Liga.This is really bad for the rest 4 players.
Did you think also for the small villages of mine which are only 500 people living and only 6 or 7 people playing table tennis??
Also I can not believe that the ITTF forbid the frictionless long pimples and in england you can still play with them.
Next step its written bevor from an other user.
If you want to change the rules you have to make sure that there is a method to controll.
My question now to you adham:
How will you controll the 35mN on a long pimple rubber and do you know there are a lot of short long pimples and every ANTI which are allow this level.

for me it looks like you want to destroy the defensiv table tennis and I am very frustrated of this.
Please change the rules and forget the ban....
have a nice week best regards

[TSC]

Zitat von Benjy

In order to be able to tell that these changes were good, you need to have a compare. Something like: Half of the world played after the new rules, the other half with the old rules. The half with the new rules had a significant raise in member-ship countet against the other half.
...
To make rules and wait for some years until no one really can remember the time before the changes and than state, that the changes were good is easy. Because no one can proove that you are wrong. On the other hand, can you bring proove that the changes really were good?

That's a methodological problem but hardly something that can be researched scientifically 100% correct and also hardly something that the ITTF can do - it's just not practicable. I doubt that half of the ITTF member associations would voluntarily play the lab rat before any tests where conducted - that's why the ITTF (I think) like many other sports associations, too, tests rules in junior competitions or so.

Zitat von Benjy

Because no one can proove that you are wrong.

Are you implying that the ITTF has chosen this way to sideline the players?

Zitat von Neptune

Why are you doing that? Are you a profi playing against those low level amateurs that are now playing soooo high with their frictionless long pimples? So why are you calling frictionless long pimples players "low level amateurs"?
...
Also you are talking about moral. PLEASE TELL ME WHERE YOUR MORAL IS!?

I'm a low level amateur myself and the rule changes were a huge blow for my game, too. They took all advantages that my game had. I ended up in the lowest possible division. I loose much more games. I have to practice harder to get back what I achieved previously. I have to concentrate myself much more. The rallies are longer. It took me years to get just partially back what I had originally. My style and my games are fundamentally different from what they were before (and what I developed in 20 years of training), it was often a frustrating experience but I don't complain, I never have. I move on and try to adapt to the game and it seems to work out even though it's a long, hard way.

Without going into details (I meant all rules not just the one concerning frictionless long pimples), the new rules are good because they support players that are motivated by the advancement of performance (which is as result of the new rules now even more important).
Here in this forum (and in the leagues where I play) I often have the feeling that many (but not all) players (especially amateurs) seem to spend huge amounts of time discussing rubbers, pimples, bats, glueing, etc.
They discuss heavily how they can adjust the material to their game. "The Technique, Tactic, Training"-forum instead is six times smaller.
They've complained heavily about the new rules and the ITTF and at the very same time they discussed new ways to circumvent the rules (maybe you remember the looong threads about using eucalyptus oil as a replacement for speed glue?). This looks a bit like a double moral for me and it seems that these players either rely heavily on their material and/or are more interested (see above) to change their gear and not their exercises (and sometimes don't worry much about the rules and/or the integrity of the game itself). I find this unmorally and I have therefore little respect for these players, no matter if they're playing in the highest or the lowest league, hence the term "Material-Nazis".

Zitat von Neptune

People like you are the reason for this ban.

Not this particular ban but the rules in general match up with my motivation (see above).

Zitat von Neptune

Instead of this you are applauding a user (TSC) who looks down at frictionless long pimples players and call them "low level amateurs" and also call other people here "Material-Nazis", which is more than disgraceful.

I think Mr.Sharara referred to the 2nd paragraph of my post.

Zitat von mago

... that a lot of "old" players will have no more fun "keine Lust" to play...you don't think this.........?

Zitat von Neptune

In 1-2 years we will still have the same situation, if you don't take back the ban, because there will be no adequate alternative for the players, which were using frictionless long pimples before. So a lot of them will still use their old rubbers or modify new ones.

Zitat von noppen-lord

for me it looks like you want to destroy the defensiv table tennis and I am very frustrated of this.

I've already said it and so did Mr.Sharara, but I'll repeat myself. Is the frustration of players (and/or the unwillingness to change their style) a reason not to adjust rules and to stop the development? Think about it.

Zitat von Neptune

What a mistake!!! What comes next??? Players that are crying again, because they cannot play against something else??? Officials crying, because they don't like to see: big woods, antis, long pimples, short pimples, thin rubbers, used rubbers, Chinese players (because they always win) ..... or even players that are to old and must be eliminated????

Oh, c'mon.

Zitat von Neptune

Very often those "material players" are the ones who keep people in our clubs, do a lot of official work for them

err, I somehow doubt that there's a direct correlation between this.

Zitat von Neptune

...
When I see players (like in our last match) that can only make a good and "mean" service and they want to kill the next ball, I wonder who trains them. Those two players (around 25-30 years old) could not even play one correct chop. Horrible. When playing a chop, it seemed like they never played table tennis before...

... But there came a time, rubbers and woods got faster and faster and young people trained more "mean" services, so I tried short pimples on backhand, which worked very good

*cough*

Zitat von hanifah1

4 made frictionless pimples by there own

Absolutely unacceptable. Too bad that they don't care for the rules. Too bad for their opponents, too.

Zitat von hanifah1

...I think I have to stop my tabeltenniscareer after 26 years.
...
But now the big Problem .... the way back ist nearly impossible.
...
to buy "homemade-frictionless pimps"

Please tell, why did you switch your gear originally? And why is it nearly impossible? Why don't you try to adapt to the game? You've made the decision in the past to switch to the frictionless pimples, why is it a problem to switch again? Why would you favor cheating over training?

Zitat von hanifah1

to loose against players you won the last yéars?

So what?

Zitat von Neptune

Let's wait 1-2 years and see what's coming up.

Indeed.

Zitat von Neptune

Most people are still gluing, still use boosters, still have the possibility to use extremly fast rubbers with tensor..., still can use extremly fast woods, and furthermore the evolution of fast material won't stop, so why shouldn't we still use frictionless long pimples. It's also so bad that the times of fairness went far away from our sport. I have always been a fair sportsman using legal material, make my service correct (which a lot of players don't do), count right, don't attack other players. But when I see that most of the players in the base don't accept your new rules about gluing, boostering, friction and still use/do it as before, there must be something wrong big time!!!

Very sad but very true. I'm not going to play against these players. They'll not get the satisfaction that they're looking for. If they don't like to stick to rules they should consider playing in the basement-league.

[Neptune]

TSC, the ban/rules just started a couple months ago. You say you ended up in the lowest divison. You say you have to practice harder to get back what you achieved previously. You say it took you years to get just partially back what you had originally. What you write here is so incredible.

You also say that you have little respect for some people because they are talking about trying something. And I tell you that this is absolutely no exculpation for calling them "Material-Nazis". You might not like them, that's your right, but you better watch your words!!!

Like I wrote before: I cannot take you as a competent person.
With your new statements you are showing that I am right.

[nevada]

Calm down guys,

this is not WWII but a forum for table-tennis players. No need to combat each other. Discuss everything you want, but don't .......

regs nevada

[Arkanius]

Dear Mr Sahara,

there are a few problems concerning your chain of arguments.

1. You put forward that many altered(cheated) their pimple rubbers

=> so do all sorts of players by glueing etc.

2. You banned the glueing and your are able to controlle it through enez and the next generation facility(which detects booster)

=> for long pimple rubbers there is a lack for such a controll facility

As a result of this on the amateur level where there is hardly an official referee you have huge trouble within the league games. Protest, Counter protest etc. The victims are not the ones who cheat(by whatever method), but all the others

3. By banning speedglue defenders have goten better chances in competion

=> Most players though produce less spin by this with their strokes(so less spin to invert through pimples). Furthermore the attacking stroke is getting shorter. Defender like Wang Xi(most efficient defender in German DTTL) were located to far away from the table. Thus the have to move more towards the table. In conclusion by a reduced distance from the table the game is still as fast as before. Nevertheless it is on the pro level still not possible to defend with two inverted rubbers. So why should it be on the amateur level(although there are quite a few defenders on this level- but they were capable even before the ban). In addtion through stuff like Tensor or the new Spring sponge speed glueers get something by the industry in exchange. With pimples it`s not possible because of al the regulations on aspect ration etc. pp.

4. By larger balls and higher nets noone will improf the chances for defenders(as we all know the 40 mm ball was an even greater disadvantage for the defender than it was for the attacker)

5. It was not my decision to ban these rubbers and i cannot rely just on comments from frictionless long pimple rubbers from Germany. Combined with your statement that everyone around the world should decide on which rules he/she uses( example you sent 38mm balls to the US for years).

=> This is correct MR Sahara but please outline then to all members of the ITTF this procedure. The DTTB will follow all orders by the ITTF. The federal TT associations will follow the DTTB. It is a vicious circle in which noone will step up and put forward their own rules(not even on local level).

6. Many players complained about frictionless long pimples( a play normal long pimples for about a year= i am just twenty so do not wonder why i play long pimples on the backhand[it was my stronger side and it still is]).

I do not like backspin choppers. Many other people do not do either. Will you ban that too( do not take is serious please= I know you will not)[but it hints at an arguement] We just cannot therefore ban a whole rubbertype( i know you do not banned a type but set restrictions on the friction but by doing so you more or less bannde a kind of was to play table tennis)

In the end( i never played frictionless long pimples) we should try to allow a hugh plurality of ways to play table tennis. To play it fair. Playing frictionless Pimples was not unfair. But by the cheating of a few people within the table tennis family ,punishing all,(which used this kind of rubbers), is unfair yourselves.

Sincerely

Curl P1r Long Pimple Player

P.S To look back in 2 to 3 years can be to late for many(many of the people playing frictionless long pimples are older and less sporty) Give them a chance to compete with all the others. Because when you age beyond a certain age it is almost impossible to learn and adept to something new( and to play long pimples is a huge difference in compairison to play inverted rubbers- in handling and the whole feeling for the ball. But playing frictionless long pimples is almost a different sport. Apart from Akerström and Neubauer no professional or even semi professional player( for Example Solja who is not even 20) was able to take the step back from frictionless long pimples to jsut normal ones. Never ever imagine what they would play like if they had to switch to inverted rubbers.

[Neptune]

Arkanius,

you are right that 2-3 years might be to late for many players. I think that a lot of them will stop or go on playing illegal long pimples in case nothing adequate comes up from Dr. Neubauer, TT-Master, TSP .......
But the ITTF or the national associations (except England) don't care about players that are stopping. They don't mind that teams are getting split or even total stop playing. They don't care about clubs and their personell and social structures. I even guess that they don't mind about the base. A couple thousand players and their social structures don't count for them. Especially in smaller clubs the situation can be disastrous.
The ITTF thinks that they can make table tennis as popular as tennis or soccer. By now only a very small amount of table tennis players watches games on TV. And that won't change. When I see a team close to me, playing second league, and there are around 30-50 spectators, that tells everything. And those spectators are all table tennis players and sometimes their family. Are there so few spectators because the athlets play frictionless long pimples? Definitively not!!! They all play fast rubbers and fast woods. Defenders or passiv players are exotics. And if there is one he plays pimples on one side. As I wrote before the evolution of material for the aggressive players won't stop but there is nothing done for the defenders or rather passiv players. The only thing they get is a nice new ban.

neptune